Lets Stop Talking About How Fast We Can Spend A TRILLION Dollars - AND Start Talking About A Plan To Get The Economy Dialed In!

"Today at the White House, House Republican Leader John Boehner and Republican Whip Eric Cantor presented a House Republican Economic Recovery Plan to President Obama and Democratic Leaders in attendance. Republican Whip Eric Cantor has led a working group to develop constructive, common-sense ideas to be included in legislation to help put the nation’s economy on the path to recovery.

America is facing unprecedented challenges, and House Republicans are committed to an open and transparent exchange of ideas to find the best approach to put America back on a path to prosperity. Republicans offered the proposal in the hopes of working with President Obama to ensure that any economic recovery plan is focused on middle-class families and protecting, preserving, and creating jobs."

Immediate Tax Relief for Working Families

Help for America’s Small Businesses

No Tax Increases to Pay for Spending

Assistance for the Unemployed

Stabilizing Home Values

...AND NO PORK!!!!!!!

 

 

Comments :

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Some good ideas in there

And Obama has said as much, himself.

But what is this supposed to mean?

Republicans are insisting that any stimulus package include a provision precluding any tax increases now or in the future to pay for this new spending.

It strikes me as probably completely meaningless, but I can't tell for sure.

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

…………

It's getting very evident which way the wind's blowing...

President Obama says that "economists from across the political spectrum agree" on the need for massive government spending to stimulate the economy.

In fact, many economists disagree. Hundreds of them, including Nobel laureates and other prominent scholars, have signed the statement that appears in the Cato Institute's ad in the New York Times, Washington Post, and in other national publications.

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

………… parent

Oh the Good Ol' days..

You asked in the other thread about what in the Republican's plans are so bad.

My answer: Nothing really! However, I'd love to go to such a place where plans like this were actually implementable. it's what (once) made me admire the Republican platform. Many of the policies are still very attractive-looking.

It's the post-election implementation I'm worried about. These plans about 20% tax cuts and no more taxes are emotional but never happen. Both parties love, love, love pork. Cuting all the Pork from a bill won't matter much at all, and both parties find time to put stuff in their bills. The average american may not care too much if you explain to them that the relief they need isn't coming because 1% of the spending in the bill is frivolous. So while all those things are nice on the linked page,  it's sounds like "Contract With America II: This Time We Really Mean It!".

As for reducing government spending to pay for the stimulus, good luck. The government has been regularly running overbudget since..WWII? I don't know, but it's been a long, long time. Fiscal responsibilty dictates that if the People want the programs the government is putting out, they have to be paid for--even if that means taxes have to go up since no one, even the tax-obsessed Repulicans are willing to be upfront. "Investments" in "energy security" and "technology" and "7500 cash to buy a house"and "defense for the GWOT" and "Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security" aren't free.

So knock the stimulus all you want, (I have as well) and sell your Tax Cuts for the Masses but here's the deal:

- Banks are afraid to lend, even when they have money.

- Americans are running from market investment. Look how the SC Stock market game is going..and we're just playin around!

- Employees who've lost their jobs are hard pressed to find jobs and they could care less when you pledge tax cuts. Hard to cut taxes at zero income, or when they get unemployment checks/or are underemployed in the lower tax breakets anyway. And at this rate americans are scared to spend and will likely save, not spend, those tax cuts.

- Lost jobs means no mortgage payments--and Americans spend what they make. If they enter the market at lower-paying jobs, goodbye house, hello apartment (and drops in the housing-related industries)

It may not be pretty, but what the Cantor package is missing is the intangible of trust and leadership. If no one believes your plans are going to be implemented, why even entertain them?

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

…………

I totally agree...

But if you believe, or think, or want to fool yourself into either of the above, that federal government spending is the answer,  you are welcome to it.

I think this is a disease, and we should treat it directly, the dems want to throw money at the patient and pray! The first stimulus did zippo, the rest will do the same! It is idiotic, and just amounts to throwing good money after bad.

Then you see liberals defending spending hundreds of millions on "contraception" (Happy SL) and calling it stimulus? If we keep up at this rate we're F'd!

Does that mean we shouldn't build nuclear power plants, and transportation infrastructure, or try and stimulate the economy in those ways, sure. But it means also we need to control spending...not increase it by and large, and that would mean streamlining existing spending, but the dems won't go for any of that I assure you, in fact quite the opposite, they are foaming at the mouth just to spend, spend, spend anything , just spend and DO IT NOW...?

Here is the most sensible package I have seen in no particular order.

 

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

………… parent

Question for RW

Here is the riddle:

How do we make investments (put tax money towards) nuclear plants, infrastructure, and energy security/energy solutions... while proposing eliminating all sorts of taxes at this time--when people are scared to take advantage of it? People aren't withholding from investing in stocks and bonds because taxes because the interest on investments are too high--it's because they don't believe the private big wigs are any more trustworthy with their money than the folks in DC. And once you start taking out the program-eliminating knife--well you know how loud people and their Special Interests can cry.

As for the 300 million contraception..we're talking .04% of the bill's budget you're ranting over, far, far less than 1%. Understand the concept of 825 billion. If the 300 million was re-routed tommorrow, we'd barely notice.  People point out the extreme cases (as if these things doesn't occur in every spending bill) and ignore larger ticket items that will matter. The government probably spends 300 million on napkins a year.

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

………… parent

Rationalization Galore...

How do we make investments (put tax money towards) nuclear plants, infrastructure, and energy security/energy solutions... while proposing eliminating all sorts of taxes at this time?

We don't waste $300 Million on anything, and we make that a point, have you even looked at the stupid stimulus package?

Here's a question for smarty pants there:

What will you do when this all falls flat on its a$$, and the economy really tanks?

Whatever...good luck!

PS - I'm for the fair tax....I just said don't raise taxes now until the national consumption tax is implemented, THAT would stimulate the economy! So stick that in your trash pail and burn it for heat! LOL! ;-)

 

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

………… parent

Forgive me if I sounded childish.

It wasn't my intention. My question was intended to be serious. But if you chose to ignore it, fine. I'll be over at my trash pail..sniffle...

I really could care less about the stimulus package right now and don't care about rationalizing it. All I'm saying is that 300 million cut away from this stimulus package will not significantly improve the thing or make it any worse.   It's like talking about the government budget being out of control because of pork and because Congress keeps giving itself raises, when really it's because a lack of financial sanity at the largest departments in the government.

What will you do when this all falls flat on its a$$, and the economy really tanks?

I'm a youngster, so I'll get over it. I'll just know that "Well, I know that didn't work." I'm pretty skeptical about it anyway, but I also don't think anyone is going to implement a fair tax, or cut business taxes down, or implement any of the wonderful programs the Republicans have been pushing for the past 15 years. If you want to run up and kick the football that Lucy has promised she'll hold for you, go on ahead Charlie Brown.

P.S. >> I like either the Fair Tax and flat tax, and I also liked that idea of letting citizens choose to pay either the fair/flat system or the old-school one.

 

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

………… parent

Ok, back to civil discourse.. ;-) Good.

First, its not just that 300 M, ok, that is an example. Its really the whole enchilada! This is crazy dude! They are spending YOUR future on a pipe dream, and you're just so cozy and used to saying "oh well" its the way it is, and just conned into going along?

WAKE UP!

Second, if you are a youngster, you're screwed, way more than everyone else! Your opportunity will be stolen from you. Your turn gambled away! And for what?

Look if they were saying, lets tighten our belts, and get serious about getting this thing dialed in, nobody would be tripp'in, but they are doing the exact opposite!

It's serious! And you, and your peers had damn well better get that!

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

………… parent

Nah I'm not screwed..

Our generation will probably just pass it on to our kids, who continue the cycle. Kinda what we do now. Me, I'll probably just move to Texas or Grandma's House in Mississippi where the land is cheap, purchase some land and retreat from society. Or move to the Bahamas after winning the Lotto. Nah seriously, I'm not terribly concerned. Maybe I should be, but I retire in 2042 and wasn't banking on Social Security anyway.

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

………… parent

Heart breaking...

Our generation will probably just pass it on to our kids, who continue the cycle. Kinda what we do now. Me, I'll probably just move to Texas or Grandma's House in Mississippi where the land is cheap, purchase some land and retreat from society. Or move to the Bahamas after winning the Lotto. Nah seriously, I'm not terribly concerned. Maybe I should be, but I retire in 2042 and wasn't banking on Social Security anyway.

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

………… parent

Lol..smile man. It'll be OK. Hakuna Matata! n/t

.

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

………… parent

2015: Hey chill my bra...

...hey man...pass CJ the next load homie...ah...tiz iz ok ma brada....

Ater all...we blew it up in 2010 anyway...it ain't com'in back bra....

 

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

………… parent

lol better...I'm off to bed..later

good talk...

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678 Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

………… parent

So yours is the south?

My personal 42 is none other than Yellowknife (or possibly Kodiak or Barrow , the latter if I'm feeling particularly frisky).

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

Regarding "stabilizing home values"...

That $7500 tax credit is already in place for first-time home buyers.  I don't think the policy makes too much sense for existing homebuyers if the goal is to stabilize home prices, because, well, existing homeowners would likely have to sell their current house to buy the new one.  That doesn't take any net inventory off the market, and the price declines is due to the fact that there is so much unsold inventory on the market. 

…………

Please, anyone serious about the stimulus idea...

...take a look at the following at Marinal Revolution .

Matt Yglesias has a very good post on Robert Barro's latest.  Brad DeLong seems to agree with Matt .  Paul Krugman uses the word "boneheaded" to describe the Barro piece.

This exchange is a good micro-cosm of how the stimulus debate has proceeded.  A highly respected anti-stimulus economist puts up some anti-stimulus evidence in a highly imperfect test (in Barro's defense, he did cover more than just WWII).  The anti-stimulus economist is attacked by pro-stimulus economists.  But the pro-stimulus proponents are focused on attack.  They are not putting up comparable empirical evidence of their own for the efficacy of fiscal policy and there is a reason for that, namely that the evidence isn't really there.

I fully admit that I don't trust the oft-cited evidence that tax cuts are 4x better stimulus than government spending boosts; I think the result is a mirage from underspecified models.  Overall we simply don't know how well the proposed stimulus will work -- if at all (is aggregate demand always the relevant war?).  It's a kind of Hail Mary pass, an enduring belief in aggregate demand macroeconomics at the theoretical level, even in light of broken banks, sectoral shifts, and nasty, failing expectations, all mixed in with hard to spend well, slow to come on line , monies.  Yes it could work but our agnosticism should be strong rather than just perfunctory. 

Writing polemics against market-oriented economists, no matter what the failings of such economists (and I am one of them, and I have failings), doesn't get us out of that box.

I'll say it again to the pro-stimulus forces: a stimulus is going to happen, so I'd love to be cheered up by your evidence.  Put it on the table.

 

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

…………

Stabilize home values?

I thought we were for letting the market decide what homes are worth.  The market says that homes are overvalued, therefore the prices are falling.

Repeat after me:  Houses are not an investment.  They are a place to keep your stuff.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

…………

Why We Must Stop This Stimulus?

Republicans need to highlight and make public all the boondoggle in daily conferences.

1. Republicans voted against the plan

2. They then offered an alternative plan which would cost 50% less yet result in twice as many jobs (saved and / or created)

3. A minority of Americans support the Democratic plan, support dwindles daily 

Unlike what dingbats like PM would have you think, this stimulous has lost support on a daily basis, it now only has a 42% approval!

So it is critical we yell from the rooftops and highlight all the garbage the Dem's are trying to charge to our account for what it really is.

In addition, what we are allocating in spending, and "refundable tax cuts" welfare payments to those who pay no tax, we are doomed to pay for in inflation.

Another thing PM and his cronies don't want to tell you, because they don't understand it anyway, is that; In the seven years between 2000-2007, the money supply rose from $600-$800B. In 2008 in and of itself, it has more than DOUBLED, it's gone from $800B-$1.7 TRILLION!

We just can't sustain this level of increase in the money supply, without, having way too much dough chasing way too few goods and services, sending prices into double digit inflation!

So at the moment while the economy is in a sort of shell shock, we are in a brief deflationary period, but once it starts to come back and those dollars start to come out of hiding, we will suffer greatly from the resulting inflation, and it will be very very difficult to cure!

 

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

…………

Harry Reid You Pillar Of Strength...Not... LOL!

Reid to GOP: It’s your fault if stimulus stalls

As the $820 billion stimulus package heads to the upper chamber, Senate Democratic leaders are launching a pre-emptive strike.

“If we don’t [pass the bill], it’s not our fault, we’re trying,” Reid said.

From A of S's

Republican Senators are meanwhile pushing tax cuts and mortgage rate cuts for credit-worthy borrowers. From 5% to 4% federally-guaranteed 30-year-mortgages.

Which seems to address the problem more directly than spending $50,000 for two dog parks in Lewiston, Maine. And $500,000 for one dog park in Chula Vista, CA.

Other dogcrap spending can be found at StimulusWatch.

 

Underlying all arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. ~M. Friedman

…………