My Question for Lou Dobbs
I occasionally (not too often) force myself to watch Lou Dobbs just in the interest of maintaining a diverse news/opinion diet. I would love to have the opportunity to challenge him on his protectionism and, specifically, his implicit argument that outsourcing offshore is evil. Primarily, I'd like ask Lou if he thinks it's evil for a U.S.-based company with U.S. operations to acquire new manufacturing equipment or information technology that enables it to conduct its operations with fewer employees. If not, then why is offshore outsourcing evil when it accomplishes the same purpose with the same impact on American workers, while also providing an opportunity for desperately poor people elsewhere to escape (or diminish) hunger and utter deprivation (which is why they'll work for far less compensation)?
Outsourcing is, on balance, a very good thing on a number of levels. First, it enables efficient capitalism, which means -- in the aggregate -- maximum productivity, optimal allocation of resources (generally speaking, with some exceptions), minimum prices of goods and services for consumers, moving jobs to people who need them most, the freeing of resources to where they are best applied (e.g., what economists call "comparative advantages" among nations -- for example, poor, low-cost labor countries producing labor-intensive products and more affluent, educated, tech-savvy countries producing high-tech or high value-added products) and as a result of all of the above, a higher material quality of life -- again, in aggregate. There is also the pragmatic point that we cannot wall ourselves off from the global economy (or at least not without tremendous price increases across much of the economy, lost jobs from our inability to export -- due to lower competitiveness and tariff wars -- and other negative consequences), so we cannot try to defy market forces and force U.S. companies to be less and less competitive.
Needless to say, some individuals suffer from outsourcing, as they do from open markets in general and even more broadly from capitalism (as opposed to pure socialism in which employment and compensation are guaranteed regardless of market forces -- at least until the whole system starts to deteriorate). I do believe that a society has some obligation to cushion the sufferring of those who are temporarily displaced, to ease the pain to a reasonable degree (e.g., unemployment benefits) and to aid in their transition to different jobs that hopefully fit better with what they can provide competitively in a global economy.
So, as I alluded to above, arguments against outsourcing are, for the most part, really arguments against capitalism. In other words, it values protection of particular jobs over a more efficient economy with all the benefits it provides for quality of life in the aggregate (i.e., for the population as a whole). The only twist is a presumed moral imperative to choose the protection of particular types of American jobs over the benefits to much poorer foreigners of shifting those jobs to them. And I would argue that, even leaving aside the moral argument that we should indeed care about a desperately poor person who happened to have the bad fortune of not being born here, forcing a substantial reduction in outsourcing (by legislation or public pressure) would harm most Americans for reasons I've explained above.
One exception to what I said above: If another country is clearly irresponsible in environmental policy or clearly, greatly abusive of labor (i.e., abusing their labor force in ways that artificially reduce wages), some exceptions are legitimate. However, labor unions and others against open markets and outsourcing often put forth exaggerated claims in these areas as a smokescreen for the unrealistic, harmful standard they are really seeking: making trade and outsourcing contingent upon foreign workers in poor countries being paid the same as American workers.
Full disclosure: I'm a management consultant and some of my clients outsource offshore (outsourcing is not the primary focus of my work, but I do occasionally advise on offshore outsourcing decisions). So there is the chance of inadvertent bias on my part. But I truly believe the opinion I’ve expressed above for the reasons I’ve given.
- B Rational's diary
- Login or register to post comments

Comments :
Your full disclosure is unnecessary
Supporting outsourcing...or better put, stating that outsourcing is good for the economy and a ridiculously utterly healthy and unequivocal net gain for nearly all Americans...is not a matter of bias, it's a matter of acknowledgment.
Sorry for my bluntness but it can't be stated enough.
And while my following disclosure is also unnecessary, I'll say it anyway as a preemptive formality:
Yes, it is sad for those who lose jobs because of outsourcing and there are things we can and should do to help them. However, in most cases, even this act of goodwill is overstated and overdone.
Truth be told, jobs lost to outsourcing account for a very small fraction of total jobs lost every year due to domestic competition, turnover and obsolescence.
Seen in this light, the extra attention to outsourcing losses is laughable.
And yes, Dobbs is a total moron and diametrically opposed to me is virtually every way. But I'm sure I can find some basic and bland points of agreement with him.
Re outsourcing I see it as
inevitable given our entrepreneurial economy, so that part of Lou Dobbs argument does not appeal to me.
However, I am in tune with his case that massive illegal immgration is costing us alot in terms of gov't services and (some) competition for jobs at the lower end of the economic scale.
name the enemy, win the war
Come on now, Sandbox...
Overblown and misleading...if not mainly untrue.
You really think illegals are exacting a big cost in government services? Most illegals don't even have access to services like welfare and related services. And even ones that are slipping thru the cracks are dwarfed in every way imaginable, quantifiable and measurable by legal citizens. Look inward. It's Smith and Jones, not Rodrigez and Rivera. Their impact is a glass of water in an Olympic-size swimming pool.
As for competition for jobs, considering our employment numbers, that's also not a strong case to make...neither is downward pressure on wages. The most charitable numbers put it at 8% lower wages on the bottom of the barrel jobs....I'm talking those taken drop outs and teenagers. Again, there's no there there. Really.
But, this bias goes is no different from Dobbs making a big fuss about the less than 1 in 10 jobs per year that are due to outsourcing. Seen against the other 9+, it's incredibly insignificant.
Think about it.
I am thinking of healthcare and education
services. Many illegal workers and their families use emergency room services, pushing hospitals to the limits. I understand and don't want us to turn sick people away from the hospitals--I'm just saying there is a big cost.. Th cost to local school districts is likewise very high for children of illegals.
Dobbs portrays the situation as out of control. I tend to agree. BTW this can be a major issue in the Pres campaign.
name the enemy, win the war
I agree
This could be an issue. Illegal immigration is brought up a lot in relation to almost every political issue.
I just heard a called on CSpan claim that illegal immigrants started the California fire out of resentment for the rich.
It is the economy, stupid.
a propos...a great article
click
RE: Outsourcing
AS a CTO of an internet company, I've found attempts of outsourcing software development to indian and south american developers to be a complete waste of time. You get what you pay for. We've always had to go back and redo the useless crap produced by such efforts. Maybe outsourcing of skilled software labor is feasible on a grand economies of scale, but not in my case, with a smaller company.
The problem with Dobbs is that he is misplaced in his criticism. The extent of the exporting of the manufacturing base and skilled labor in the US is actually the direct result of the US Dollar being artificially propped up us the reserve currency of the world. The more we import, e.g, China, the weaker our currency should become in a free-floating exchange market, which would therefore make foreign labor sources more expensive. But the US Dollar being the reserve currency of the world creates this situation where we can import at will and yet export an increasingly skilled job base at will as well. Overall, it actually makes us a richer a country to be able to take advantage of this scenerio, however, this scenerio combined with our tax code results in a more inqeuitable distribution of wealth, especially with respect to the tilting of the tax code with respect to health insurance and other benefits to employment.
Like always, the government mucks it all up.
every single time I watch Lou Dobbs
it's the same mantra on immigration and American jobs. Amnesty this and workers that. Non stop. I do watch him on occasion and I agree with the need to secure our borders but his protectionist garbage is annoying and grating.
Overall though he is an asset against pro-illegal immigration Democrats. Which has nothing to do with outsourcing but everything to do with security. Well yes it does have to do with doing menial work for low wages which is good and efficient as well, but that can be accomplished through worker visas and a much more regulated and safe approach.
He is a blowhard though.
"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR
OT, but about Lou Dobbs--
I happened to tune him in on Tuesday (I think) and he looked and sounded terrible-- his speech was slurred, he stumbled over words, and altogether appeared drunk or high on some sort of drugs. Besides his speech, he was erratic, and berated Chad Myers, the weatherman, over Dobbs' perceived failings of longterm hurricane forecasts. It was a very bizarre scene.
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...
My take
Seeing as my career choice went from "guaranteed six figures" to "have fun working at McD's", offshoring puts me in a mood not unlike the one Ayn Rand puts me in.
I'll give a little bit because some of the downturn has to do with the tech bubble bursting, but everyone telling you that you'll have a minimum of 10 job offers out of college turning into being unemployed for 5 months and having to work at UPS for temp work in the winter doesn't exactly make me warm and fuzzy.
I could go into more detail and get a bit more on topic, and perhaps I will at a later date, but I put myself in a bad mood again. :-)
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
After the tech bubble burst in 2002--
I couldn't find work as a web developer and ended up going back to school and working as a CSR for Medco, taking people's mail-order prescription orders & so forth, which was a mind-numbing job, and then after I quit that because I couldn't take it anymore, I took a job doing on-site oil changes and routine maintenance for Southwestern Bell work trucks and vans, which was sort of fun if not lucrative. I make too many mistakes for that kind of work though-- I backed a truck into a pole once, spilled enough oil to make the Exxon Valdez captain envious, including drenching my boss with oil once, failed to tighten a thumb-screw on a jack handle in an incident that ended up with us having to drive a workvan off of a jack (noisily), and generally proved myself incompetent many times over.
I think it's the nature of the 21st century that a large percentage of workers will have to take different jobs at times to get by during slow patches in the economy. My attitude was that my job does not define me, and that I can have fun even if I'm not maxing out in my professional career every day of my life.
skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...