Tuesday Open Thread (Obamate my tires)

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Soft News

The Pentagon unveils a new career saving robot favicon

It appears that Mary-Kate Olsen favicon likes to use "powerful painkillers."

__________________________

In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,

…………

I like that robot :)

And Olsens are freakazoids. I used to like them on the Full House - cute!

__________________________

"To discuss evil in a manner implying neutrality, is to sanction it." AR

………… parent

My very infrequent participation

looks to remain that way until end of September.

I know you're all crushed =)

I'll be back to enjoy the craziness leading up to the election.

__________________________

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

…………

Baby?

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

plus work

Yeah... plus, to be honest, I am just burnt out on politics right now.

__________________________

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

………… parent

I can sympathize completely.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Rs can use it as an issue in the election

why does House Democratic Leadership deny the will of most members of the House, the Senate, and obviously their Nominee who all support the comprehensive bipartisan Senate plan that allows for some more offshore drilling, focus on renewables, and other decent energy policy. Pelosi has hijacked the country and is preventing anything from being done about our Energy crisis.

I already answered this question in response to Red_Wing, but I'll say it again.

Why does the Senate Republican Leadership continue to filibuster bills that deny the will of most members of the House, the Senate, etc., etc.? The obvious answer is that the bill is politically unpalatable to the minority, so they will use any tools at their disposal to keep it from being passed.

Even then, I disagree that a majority of the House and Senate support the plan of which you speak. In the House a majority of members can sign a discharge petition to get any bill onto the floor without a rule or committee report. In the Senate anyone can bring up legislation via a motion, but it is considered "rude" to do so unless at the behest of the majority leader.

The only thing that is stopping either house from passing the bill of which you speak is either tradition or not enough votes. You'll have to figure out which you think is more important.

I'd even argue that the Republicans don't want this bill to be passed. They aren't using the methods I outlined above to circumvent the leadership because using this issue to beat Obama over the head is useful to them. It's certainly more useful than actually having a bill passed.

__________________________

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to... favicon

…………

How out of touch is Barack Obama?

Time Magaizine says: favicon

"He's so out of touch that he suggested that if all Americans inflated their tires properly and took their cars for regular tune-ups, they could save as much oil as new offshore drilling would produce. Gleeful Republicans have made this their daily talking point; Rush Limbaugh is having a field day; and the Republican National Committee is sending tire gauges labeled "Barack Obama's Energy Plan" to Washington reporters.

But who's really out of touch? The Bush Administration estimates that expanded offshore drilling could increase oil production by 200,000 bbl. per day by 2030. We use about 20 million bbl. per day, so that would meet about 1% of our demand two decades from now. Meanwhile, efficiency experts say that keeping tires inflated can improve gas mileage 3%, and regular maintenance can add another 4%. Many drivers already follow their advice, but if everyone did, we could immediately reduce demand several percentage points. In other words: Obama is right."

Duh....just because Karl Rove likes to try and rouse the dumb as**oles to make his boy look good, doesn't mean that they have to actually make any sense or anything. they really just want it to be an election against effete pretentious french liking girlyman Democrats VS. Real Men Republicans. So...OK, they get a laugh at Obama's expense but...there's something wrong with this picture....Real Men know enough to actually take care of their stuff. You do that and it runs right, runs better and costs you way less money in the long run.

Guess Karl Rove really is hitting it with the phaux real men. Limbaugh, Hannity, Rove...yea. I'd sooner expect to see them in an airport men's room with Senator Craig than with any of them getting their hands oily playing with an engine or changing the oil or something. But just look who is laughing. They are all fakes. Their egos cry out to call themselves Men. Being a Man isn't based on words. Being a man is based on your actions. They aren't Real Men.

………… parent

You think the Prez election is gettin rough?

Then check out what's going on down South--Tennessee's 9th district is 60% black yet is represented by a white Jewish man. This same guy, Cohen(D) has tried to petition for membership to the CBC but was denied, well..you know why right? Anyway, he's up for re-election in a primary against a young black corporate lawyer named Tinker (D). They've pulled out all the stops--complete with political ads showing KKK images and burning crosses. No, I'm not kidding. favicon

If even half of what I've heard about Tinker previously is true, I hopes she gets trounced.

__________________________

http://wealthweekly.blogspot.com
Wii FC:2805-8311-8040-2678
Brawl: 2277-7051-2186

…………

Senate bill would bar secret changes to executive orders

Via Secrecy News

The President would no longer be able to secretly modify or revoke a published executive order if a new bill introduced in the Senate yesterday becomes law.

The bill, sponsored by Sen. Russ Feingold and Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, responds to a Justice Department Office of Legal Counsel opinion that was revealed last year by Senator Whitehouse on the Senate floor. According to that unreleased opinion, “There is no constitutional requirement for a President to issue a new Executive order whenever he wishes to depart from the terms of a previous Executive order. Rather than violate an Executive order, the President has instead modified or waived it.”

What this means is that any published executive order may or may not actually be in effect. It may or may not correspond to the legal framework that governs the executive branch. The public has no way of knowing.

“No one disputes that a President can withdraw or revise an Executive Order at any time,” said Senator Feingold yesterday. “That is every President’s prerogative. But abrogating a published Executive order without any public notice works a secret change in the law.”

“Worse,” he said, “because the published Order stays on the books, it actively misleads Congress and the public as to what the law is.”

To remedy that problem, the new bill requires notification of any change.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Senate bill to end coercive interrogations and secret detentions

again via Secrecy News

A bill introduced by Sen. Dianne Feinstein and several Senate colleagues last week would “end coercive interrogations and secret detentions by the Central Intelligence Agency.”

“These practices have brought shame to our Nation, have harmed our ability to fight the war on terror, and, I believe, violate U.S. law and international treaty obligations,” Sen. Feinstein said.

“Our Nation has paid an enormous price because of these interrogations. They cast shadow and doubt over our ideals and our system of justice. Our enemies have used our practices to recruit more extremists. Our key global partnerships, crucial to winning the war on terror, have been strained,” she said.

“Look at two of our closest allies in the world. The British Parliament no longer trusts U.S. assurances that we will not torture detainees. The Canadian Government recently added the United States to its list of nations that conduct torture.”

“This is not the country that we want to be,” Sen. Feinstein said.

The bill is co-sponsored by Senators Rockefeller, Whitehouse, Hagel, Feingold, and Wyden.

Have I mentioned that I like Sen. Wyden (D-Oregon)? He's kind of a policy geek, not that that's a bad thing in a senator.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Anthrax witch hunt?

The 2001 Anthrax mailings may have finally been solved. Or maybe not. A principle suspect commited suicide last week and the FBI claims that they were within weeks of indicting him for the crime.

On the other hand disturbing suggestions that this is a matter of finding someone to blame, rather than actually solving a crime, are raising questions.

From the NYT:

Dr. Ivins had been a respected microbiologist for three decades at the United States Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick. He was a popular neighbor in Frederick, Md., a Red Cross volunteer and an amateur juggler who played keyboards at his church.

But the investigators found some personal quirks, according to law enforcement officials and people who knew the scientist well. They found that Dr. Ivins, who had a history of alcohol abuse, had for years maintained a post office box under an assumed name that he used to receive pornographic pictures of blindfolded women.

Years ago, he had visited Kappa Kappa Gamma sorority houses at universities in Maryland, Virginia and West Virginia, an obsession growing out of a romance with a sorority sister in his own college days at the University of Cincinnati — although someone who knew him well said the last such visit was in 1981.

Salaciousness aside, those personal habits seem distinctly unconnected to the actual crime. Even if they fit an FBI profile (and nobody so far has suggested much less demonstrated that they do) that is still circumstantial.

What is more relevant, agents focused new attention on a 2002 Army investigation of a spill of anthrax the same year outside the secure laboratory that Dr. Ivins worked in, and his puzzling behavior in trying to clean the area with bleach while failing to report the contamination. They studied his anthrax vaccine patents and considered whether the promise of royalties after a bioterrorism scare might have been a motive. They noted that he had a lyophilizer, which could be used to dry wet anthrax into powder, a form not ordinarily used at Fort Detrick.

This also seems thin. I can say definitively that it is difficult to get people to report spills of even dangerous chemicals because of all the rigamarole involved, and I'm working in a corporate environment not the much more strict government labs (much less working with anthrax, although some of the stuff here is pretty lethal).

Here's where it gets a bit more worrisome:

They had even intensively questioned his adopted children, Andrew and Amanda, now both 24, with the authorities telling his son that he might be able to collect the $2.5 million reward for solving the case and buy a sports car, and showing his daughter gruesome photographs of victims of the anthrax letters and telling her, “Your father did this,” according to the account Dr. Ivins gave a close friend.

As the investigation wore on, some colleagues thought the F.B.I.’s methods were increasingly coercive, as the agency tried to turn Army scientists against one another and reinterviewed family members.

One former colleague, Dr. W. Russell Byrne, said the agents pressed Dr. Ivins’s daughter repeatedly to acknowledge that her father was involved in the attacks.

“It was not an interview,” Dr. Byrne said. “It was a frank attempt at intimidation.”

Dr. Byrne said he believed Dr. Ivins was singled out partly because of his personal weaknesses. “They figured he was the weakest link,” Dr. Byrne said. “If they had real evidence on him, why did they not just arrest him?”

Another former co-worker, Dr. Kenneth W. Hedlund, who collaborated on anthrax research with Dr. Ivins in the 1980s, had a similar theory.

“The investigators looked around, they decided they had to find somebody. They went after all of them but he looked the most susceptible to pressure,” Dr. Hedlund said. “It is like prisoners of war: if they are harassed enough, they will be driven to do anything. But I don’t believe he would have done what they say he did.”

With such views voiced by Dr. Ivins’s acquaintances — and vocal skepticism from key members of Congress — the pressure is growing on the F.B.I. to unveil its evidence.

I'd like to believe tha FBI has acted in good faith here, but after Brandon Mayfield, the various DoJ politicization that has leaked out over the last four years, and the general culture of outright criminality that Bush has brought into the executive office, I'm having a hard time giving them any benefit of the doubt. The FBI needs to put up.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

A pattern of criminal invention

Ron Suskind's new book claims the White House ordered the FBI to forge a letter indicating a link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda:

Suskind writes in “The Way of the World,” to be published Tuesday, that the alleged forgery – adamantly denied by the White House – was designed to portray a false link between Hussein’s regime and al Qaeda as a justification for the Iraq war.

The author also claims that the Bush administration had information from a top Iraqi intelligence official “that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq – intelligence they received in plenty of time to stop an invasion.”

The letter’s existence has been reported before, and it had been written about as if it were genuine. It was passed in Baghdad to a reporter for The (London) Sunday Telegraph who wrote about it on the front page of Dec. 14, 2003, under the headline, “Terrorist behind September 11 strike ‘was trained by Saddam.’”

The Telegraph story by Con Coughlin (which, coincidentally, ran the day Hussein was captured in his “spider hole”) was touted in the U.S. media by supporters of the war, and he was interviewed on NBC's "Meet the Press."

Kevin Drum notes that this would certainly fit the pattern:

The White House, of course, adamantly denies Suskind's story. Coincidentally, though, the Daily News reports that the FBI received similar treatment after the 2001 anthrax attacks:

In the immediate aftermath of the 2001 anthrax attacks, White House officials repeatedly pressed FBI Director Robert Mueller to prove it was a second-wave assault by Al Qaeda....Mueller was "beaten up" during President Bush's morning intelligence briefings for not producing proof the killer spores were the handiwork of terrorist mastermind Osama Bin Laden, according to a former aide. "They really wanted to blame somebody in the Middle East," the retired senior FBI official told The News.

Add to this the uncontested fact that George Bush once mused to Tony Blair about flying fake UN planes over Iraq to try and create a pretext for war, as well as Seymour Hersh's revelation that Dick Cheney recently discussed similar kinds of schemes to foment war with Iran. Maybe it's coincidence. Maybe all these sources are just making stuff up. Maybe. But that's a helluva similar pattern of allegations, isn't it?

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

I have no problem believing that bush43 would use forgery to get

what they want.

They already have. The Nigerian Yellowcake paper that was brought through Rome was shown to be a forgery. Several European governments concluded as much as did our own CIA but bush43 still used it in order to justify attacking and occupying Iraq.

That's worked out so swell too.

………… parent

Paris is Hot For Energy

Paris Offers Her Advice for an Energy Solution favicon

Oh My!

__________________________

It is the economy, stupid.

…………

Can't she hurry up

and overdose, or die in a donkey show gone horribly wrong (right)?

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

That is wrong

Obviously Paris's beauty is more than skin deep, T.

This was a brilliant move on her part, not only for her career but it moves the energy debate further down the road...! A celebrity with brains!

__________________________

It is the economy, stupid.

………… parent

Hehe love it! Brilliant!

The sad thing is, the energy policy thing shouldn't be a whole lot more complicated than her "plan", but the very serious people in Washington can't even get to a vote.  Astonishing. 

Bravo, Paris, you are aces!

__________________________

skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...

………… parent

Since I am a glass half full kind of gal

I think you might be making a mistake to think that Republicans are interested in good faith legislation on energy. We should trust them because......... of FEMA, or their good works in Iraq, or their brilliance with Medicare? I would just as soon folks bide their time and think this through before they rush to this new instant balm of drilling now as some sort of 'feel good' solution.

The oil companies can drill all over the place right now, so why don't they? Do they want the tax payers to subsidize the oil rigs or something.

__________________________

It is the economy, stupid.

………… parent

Glass half full?

I'm "glass half empty" and then I complain about the quality of the glass and of the liquid therein.

Actually, I'm really "glass half full" because "full" is one syllable while "empty" is two. I don't have time for extra syllables. I'm a busy man. :-)

__________________________

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to... favicon

………… parent

I appreciate your brilliant

analytical mind however full your glass is.

Have you ever applied your mind to fishing. It's a great way for great thinkers to relax.

__________________________

It is the economy, stupid.

………… parent

I hate fishing

I've tried to get into it, but it's just not for me.

And I'm a brilliant thinker as well? I wouldn't go that far. I just happen to think about my political philosophy a bit more than the average person. I like keeping my mind busy.

__________________________

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to... favicon

………… parent

There's no rush into it--

The ban has been on for decades. 

We seem to think we can have our cake and eat it too in this country: we want the highest standard of living on the planet backed by the highest rate of consumption while keeping our territory pristine and extracting none of the natural resources.  Instead, we want other countries to subsidize us infinitely by financing our huge current accounts deficit while they also deplete their own resources and take the environmental hit. 

Well, now that that particular game has hit an inevitable snag in the form of skyrocketing energy prices in this country, as other countries tire of shipping us their treasures and receiving stuff like mortgage-backed securities in return.  We seem to be stumped as to how to reverse the erosion of the value of our currency, when the answer is obvious: we need to produce a lot more of what we use, and quickly, while being more efficient.  Drilling is part of that.  Conservation is part of that.  Renewables are part of that.  Leave out any part of the puzzle, and we won't make much of a dent in the problem.

Free ride = over.  There's not going to be another stock market bubble or housing bubble that will create "wealth" that we can borrow against.  We're going to have to create wealth by actually producing goods of real value to fuel the next recovery. 

Drilling is the fastest and most sure economic stimulus measure available to us right now. It is a tough choice to make, but the sooner that we steel ourselves to the inevitablility of it, the easier it will be on ourselves.  If we delay, we could face a day where we must out and out sell lands like the National Petroleum Reserve to the sovereign funds of other nations in order to finance our national debts.  And they will do the drilling, and sell us our own oil.

__________________________

skymutt: wise and powerful... enlightened...

………… parent

Honestly, I think Paris Hilton's answer was best.

I know she delivered it tongue in cheek but I think what she laid out was spot on.

………… parent

Her response is the Repub position!

Funny how the liberals can't hear it coming from Repubs, but PAris says it and everyone agrees?

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

………… parent

no, it's not.

She says she'd consider opening SOME of the coasts using the STRICTEST possible environmental safeguards to find and produce the oil.

Republicans want the whole thing opened and could give a rats ass about environmental controls.

She lauds work on renewables.

McCain is on record as saying renewables won't work.. He wants to focus on oil, coal & nuclear.

Thanks for trying to rewrite modern history though.

………… parent

LOL!

Do you just read and retain what suits you?

McCain would like "All the above" which of course includes renewables, he wanted to give a prize to the first person to develop a new battery, remember? He's for wind, bio-fuel, hydro, etc., etc.

It would be whatever new technology the market can bring forth. Obama wants to choose the technology, and tax you to develop it. McCain wants to let the private sector do what it does and develop the new technologies that will emerge.

Republicans are perfectly fine with the use of the finest environmental safeguards available. To say otherwise is plain partisan gibberish.

The Repubs want JUST EXACTLY what PH suggested, hard to believe I'm actually saying that, LOL, Drill, develop new technologies, and transition over.

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

………… parent

I think the problem is

the emphasis, and what it suggests.

Think about it in terms of the immigration debate. "Comprehensive" immigration reform promised increased enforcement, a path to citizenship, and so on. But what Immigration opponents heard was "PATH TO CITIZENSHIP (*AMNESTY*) and.. oh yeah, maybe a little more enforcement..."

Naturally they took that as a sign of what the actual priorities were and what would really happen.

Similarly when McCain and the GOP in general say "DRILL NOW, DRILL HERE, DRILL OFTEN and...oh yeah, maybe toss a few bucks at renewable resources later...if we feel like it..."

We get the message.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Ok

But you would be mistaken then, because at the heart of it, besides solving the pain so many Americans are feeling at the pump, and will continue to feel this winter as heating costs set it, Republicans are excited and motivated to develop new technologies that will create new businesses, that will create wealth and new jobs, and ...

But you are right, and I am guilty of it in reverse more often than I care to admit. LOL! ;-)

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

………… parent

Obama does it again...

Obama criticized John McCain favicon today for taking a page out of “the Cheney playbook” on energy.

Really?

Obama said, “President Bush, he had an energy policy. He turned to Dick Cheney and he said, ‘Cheney, go take care of this,’” Obama said. “Cheney met with renewable-energy folks once and oil and gas (executives) 40 times. McCain has taken a page out of the Cheney playbook.” …

Oh ya Barack? LOL!

Obama himself voted for that 2005 energy bill backed by Bush that included billions in subsidies for oil and natural gas production, the measure Cheney played a major role in developing.

What's even funnier!

McCain opposed the bill on grounds it included billions in unnecessary tax breaks for the oil industry…

Obama dug his hole even deeper, “We have to end the age of oil. “Obama said. “If we fail to act, there are severe indications for national security, our economy and our environment.” …

Obama seems to have a very spotty memory, which is not a good thing for such a BS artist.

Though, it is not something the media ever call him on.

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

…………

Uh huh

Though, it is not something the media ever call him on.

Funny how you can link to an AP article that calls him on it, then, isn't it! Damned liberal media! :P

__________________________

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

………… parent

I guess they did, but not really?

n/t

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

………… parent

Seems like McCain was against handouts before he was for them

McCain Missed Opportunity To End Big Oil Tax Breaks to Invest in Clean Energy. In 2007, McCain was the only senator who failed to vote on a motion to invoke cloture (thus limiting debate) on the Energy Independence and Security Act. This vote was about whether to close $13 billion in tax breaks for major oil and gas companies to invest in new clean energy technologies such as wind and solar, and efficiency. Sixty votes were required for passage. The motion was rejected 59-40. [CQ.com; HR 6, Vote #425, 12/13/07]

Spokesman Said McCain Would Have Voted With Big Oil. According to Forbes.com, "Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., was not present for the voting because he is on the presidential campaign trail. However, a spokesperson said that he would not have supported breaking the filibuster." [Forbes.com, 12/13/07]

John McCain's Record on Energy and Global Warming favicon

__________________________

Sic semper tyrannis

………… parent

Woodsman!

How are you? Hope they've improved your DSL and that your husbandry is paying off!

Stop in and say hello sometimes ;-) I've redone the plot yet again, but your LM will still work.

__________________________

don't ask me, I'm just improvising
Political Compass Score: Econ L/R -0.12 Social Lib/Auth -1.33

………… parent

Purpleface!

I was just wondering if you were around anymore.

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Da Liberals got me

I had a series of overwhelmingly depressing experiences with liberal ideology that just effectively turned off my political gene for a while. Unlike you, for example, these folks could not support an argument, nor comprehend opposition, nor string two consecutive linked thoughts together. Although you and I rarely agree, at least you can say *why* and will on occasion understand my debate points and reply to them.

I'm reading the site a bit more and will try to comment more often. I started a diary as well....no promises though. Something noncontroversial and easy to discuss, like immigration.

BTW I have noticed (but magnanimously ignored) your continued penchant for Texas-bashing :-)

__________________________

don't ask me, I'm just improvising
Political Compass Score: Econ L/R -0.12 Social Lib/Auth -1.33

………… parent

I can say *why* I bash texas, too :)

Anyway, nice to see you around. I see you already met Red Wing (who has sparked some good conversation the last couple days).

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

It's been the quality and veracity of...

...others that have kept it that way. ;-)

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

………… parent

Ahh, liberals...

"I had a series of overwhelmingly depressing experiences with liberal ideology..."

"...these folks could not support an argument, nor comprehend opposition, nor string two consecutive linked thoughts together..."

Welcome to my world. LOL!

(This is a great site though, Neil Stevens over at Redstate mentioned it, it's been fun, a couple more conservatives would help, LOL!.)

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

………… parent

It's a great site

SC is a great place for those who are willing to discuss an issue, instead of just shouting talking points at each other. Although the shouting can be fun too ;-)

__________________________

don't ask me, I'm just improvising
Political Compass Score: Econ L/R -0.12 Social Lib/Auth -1.33

………… parent

We've been brainstorming for a while

about how to get more conservatives to the site. Feel free to recommend to others at sites you visit. It is often hard to have a good discussion when one side is vastly outnumbered. A lot of the discussions have been more liberal vs. libertarian since we have a significant contingent of libertarians (actually haven't seen much of them the last few weeks, now that I think about it).

__________________________

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

I am not a libertarian, as I do...

...believe we need to prosecute this war, and I think we need to legislate traditional American social values, etc.

But, that being said, I do support abolishing the Dept of Education, the Fed, the IRS, social security, returning to the gold standard, etc.

So I don't know where that leaves us, but I look forward to finding out! :-)

__________________________

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." ~ B. Goldwater

www.TheRedWing.com

………… parent